| Senate Judiciary Committee w/Alberto Gonzales-7/24/07 Pt15 Part 15 of 32 Senate Judiciary Committee with Alberto Gonzales. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse questions Alberto Gonzales. 7/24/07 KEEP IN MIND: Gonzales was given each and every question he would be asked beforehand. Nothing was a surprise - there was absolutely NO "GOTCHA!" Transcript of this portion of the hearing: WHITEHOUSE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Gonzales, just before our little break, you indicated, in describing your reason for visiting the stricken attorney general in his hospital room was to alert him to the change in the Department of Justice view of the program at issue. And you testified that Attorney General Ashcroft -- and these are the words that I wrote down -- quote, "Authorized these activities for over two years." Is it your testimony, under oath, that Attorney General Ashcroft was read into and authorized the program at issue for two years prior to your visit to him in that hospital? GONZALES: I want to be very careful here, because it's fairly complicated. What I can say is I'm referring to intelligence activities that existed for a period of over two years and what we were asking the Department of Justice to do was -- which they had approved and what we... WHITEHOUSE: "They had approved" I guess is the point that I'm getting at. GONZALES: General Ashcroft, yes. WHITEHOUSE: You're saying that Attorney General Ashcroft... GONZALES: Yes. WHITEHOUSE: ... had authorized this program for over two years prior to that day... GONZALES: General Ashcroft had authorized these very important intelligence activities for a period of two years. We had gone -- we had gone to the deputy attorney general and asked him to reauthorize these same activities. But there are facts here, and I want to be fair to everyone involved. They're complicated. And we have had discussions in the Intel Committees about this issue. I'll try to be as forthcoming as we can. Let me just say I believe everyone acted in good faith here. All the lawyers worked as hard as they could to try to find a way forward, the right solution. But, yes. I mean, the view was is that these activities had been authorized. GONZALES: We informed... WHITEHOUSE: By Attorney General Ashcroft? GONZALES: By Attorney General Ashcroft. But there are additional facts here that -- I want to be fair. And it's complicated, but... WHITEHOUSE: I'm just trying to nail that one fact down. I'm not trying to... GONZALES: Well, I'm not sure that I... (CROSSTALK) GONZALES: I'm not sure I can give you complete comfort -- I'm not sure I want to give you complete comfort on that point, out of fairness to others involved in what happened here. I want to be very fair to them. But what I'm -- what we are talking about... WHITEHOUSE: (inaudible) different question. LEAHY: Why not just be fair to the truth? Just be fair to the truth and answer the question. (APPLAUSE) WHITEHOUSE: Was Attorney General Ashcroft read into, and did he approve the program at issue from its inception? GONZALES: General Ashcroft was read into these activities, and did approve these activities... WHITEHOUSE: Beginning when? GONZALES: From the very beginning. I believe, from the very beginning. WHITEHOUSE: All right. GONZALES: But, well... WHITEHOUSE: I'm sorry? My question... (CROSSTALK) GONZALES: Again, it's very complicated. And I want to be fair to General Ashcroft and others involved in this. And it's hard to describe this in this open setting. We've tried to be -- we've tried to discuss -- we have discussed in the Intel Committees, in terms of exactly what happened here. But I can't get into the fine details, quite frankly, because I want to be fair to General Ashcroft. WHITEHOUSE: And I think it's also important that people know whether or not a program was run with or without the approval of the Department of Justice but without the knowledge and approval of the attorney general of the United States, if that was ever the case. GONZALES: We believe we had the approval of the attorney general of the United States for a period of two years. WHITEHOUSE: For a period of two years? GONZALES: That is what... (CROSSTALK) WHITEHOUSE: Also from the inception of the program? GONZALES: From the very -- from the inception, we believed that we had the approval of the attorney general of the United States for these activities, these particular activities. WHITEHOUSE: Would that be reflected in any document? GONZALES: Yes, it would. WHITEHOUSE: We'll pursue the document later. When you went into the attorney general's room at the hospital that night, what document did you have in your hand? GONZALES: I had in my possession a document to reauthorize the program. WHITEHOUSE: Where is it now? GONZALES: I'm assuming the document is at the White House. It was a White House document. WHITEHOUSE: And it would be covered by presidential records laws? GONZALES: It is a White House document. WHITEHOUSE: Director Mueller was involved that evening. Do you consider Director Mueller to be reasonable, sober and level-headed? GONZALES: Yes. WHITEHOUSE: He's a former deputy attorney general, former United States attorney? GONZALES: Yes. WHITEHOUSE: Why would he tell FBI agents not to allow you and Andy Card to throw the acting attorney general out of the attorney general's hospital room? GONZALES: I don't know that he did that, and I can't respond to your question. I'm not Director Mueller. WHITEHOUSE: But we have direct testimony that he did. You can't -- is there any series of events that led up to this that would so provoke him... GONZALES: I wasn't aware of that comment until I read Mr. Comey's testimony. WHITEHOUSE: Is there some background to this that would help elaborate why he would have that feeling? I mean, when the FBI director considers you so nefarious that FBI agents had to be ordered not to leave you alone with the stricken attorney general, that's a fairly serious challenge. GONZALES: Well, again, I'm not sure that the director knew at the time of the meeting and a conversation that we had had with the congressional leaders. We were -- again, we were there following an emergency meeting in the White House Situation Room with the gang of eight, who said, "Despite the recommendation of the attorney general, go forward with very important intelligence activities for now and we'll see about moving forward some legislation." And that was important information that led us to go to the hospital room. The director, I'm quite confident, did not have that information when he made those statements, if he made those statements. WHITEHOUSE: Is it awkward to supervise the FBI after this piece of history has come out, that the director didn't feel comfortable leaving you alone with the attorney general? GONZALES: I can't speak for the director's feelings about me. But I still have a great deal of confidence and admiration and respect for Bob Mueller. WHITEHOUSE: Separate topic: Will you allow the White House to direct United States attorneys how to conduct litigation to which the White House is itself a party? GONZALES: Would I... WHITEHOUSE: Would you allow the White House to direct United States attorneys how to conduct litigation to which the White House is a party? GONZALES: I don't believe so. Again, you're asking me a hypothetical. But my reaction to that is no. WHITEHOUSE: Is there any matter -- any matter that the Department of Justice is involved in in which you would allow the Department of Justice to agree to the investigative terms set by the White House for this committee: no transcript, closed-door interviews, one round of questions only and then nevermore? WHITEHOUSE: Is there any matter in the department's jurisdiction where you would allow your lawyers to subject themselves to that kind of a restriction in doing their duties? GONZALES: You know I can't answer that question. I mean, I don't know. There may be a matter, but I don't know. I don't know. WHITEHOUSE: Can you think of one... GONZALES: Again, I mean, I could probably think of one, so... WHITEHOUSE: ... where you would allow your lawyers to be subject to those restrictions? GONZALES: Senator, again, you're asking me is it possible? I'd say virtually anything is possible. But, obviously, that's something we'd have to look at. WHITEHOUSE: My time has expired, Mr. Chairman. Tags: senate judiciary committee cspan cheney sheldon whitehouse part 15 alberto gonzales 7/24/07 cssjcagpt1572407 |